Interview mit Alasdair Dunn von Ashenspire

Greetings! Thank you for giving us your time. What’s going on with you at the moment?
Hi! No worries at all. We’re catching a short break at the moment after the intensity of releasing the record and a sold-out album release show a couple of days ago (an overwhelmingly joyous night with A Forest of Stars and We Came From The North). When we come back, we’ll be preparing for a string of future shows. All sounding great though!

You have a new album out with „Hostile Architecture“, which in my perception has brought you more attention than your debut. Do you also see it that way? And how have you experienced the reactions to the record so far?
I think it’d be impossible to say otherwise! The reception has been incredible, and hugely humbling to see the intense emotional connection folk have had with the album.

On „Hostile Architecture“ you particularly address how capitalism is reflected in urban planning and the appearance of buildings. How did you become aware of this particular perspective on the current economic system?
It’s something that you become subconciously aware of if you live long enough in a modern city, I think. Most folk experience it as „background stress“ or something similar, but having come from living in a small village, I had more of an alternative frame of reference and was more immediately struck by it than maybe someone who had grown up amongst it might have. I love architecture generally, and it’s really fascinating to interrogate and reflect on the material conditions that led to particular design choices being made in any object, it just so happens that architecture has a ubiquitous effect on life, shelter being, as it is, a need for survival. Thus all choices made in the architectural field will have some effect on the humans that interact with it. Once I started engaging more with political and philosophical theory, I started to see how ubiquitous the effect of neoliberal capitalism is – symptoms of it are everywhere you look.

As obvious examples, you denounce social buildings constructed from unsafe building materials, such as Grenfell Tower, or anti-homeless spikes. Can you give any other, perhaps more subtle, examples of how poor people are disadvantaged, endangered, or displaced in urban spaces?
When I was filming the footage for the video for „The Law of Asbestos“, I was mostly in and around the Dundasvale tower blocks in Glasgow. It’s a pretty large complex, in a roughly horseshoe shape. At the very centre of this horseshoe, almost predictably, is a large police station, a fortress squatting in the centre like the tower in the centre of Bentham’s Panopticon. There’s no feeling of safety there, no security. It’s literally built like a prison! And this is far from the only example of where this sort of thing takes place.
Another egregious example is on Glasgow’s Sauchihall street, particularly at the long-empty BHS store. For one thing, the building is completely unused, huge amounts of sheltered space walled off for more than 6 years now. Outside its doors was a somewhat sheltered area where folk would sleep out of the rain and wind, itself an insulting situation when mere inches from shelter. The response they were given was to wall off the sheltered area so that they couldn’t access even the slightly sheltered area. Now the building is of no use to anyone (no business has occupied its immense halls since it closed), and there is one fewer safe place to sleep. It stands as a monument to pure capitalist misery.

Capitalism and its effects are of course an intersectional problem. For example, in „Béton Brut“ you come to talk about misogyny and masculinity. To what extent do these themes and the concept of the album intertwine?
The hegemonic values of cis/heteronormativity and patriarchy are as intertwined with capitalism as any other hierarchical system. Capitalism requires hierachies to function, hierachies of wealth and class – these can be strengthened and further stratified by intersection with any other hierarchical system. For example, white supremacy can be used to pursue maximal profit by the dehumanising and objectification of racialised groups, which legitimizes their exploitation as a cheap labour force, i.e. slavery. So too, then, does misogyny contribute to the strengthening of capitalism – the labour traditionally expected of women under a patriarchal system (housekeeping, childcare, sexual gratification of men etc.) can be devalued to the point that it need not be compensated, whereas labour traditionally expected of men is seen as „useful“, and worthy of compensation, thus further concentrating power in the hands of the few. Fundamentally, the power of capital can only be broken alongside the dismantling of those hierarchies.

Much of what you criticize in your art is simply perceived as normal by many people. How did you become aware of these issues and eventually develop your current worldview?
Mostly a lot of observation, conversation, reading and reflection! The development of my views has been greatly enhanced by how accessible leftist sociopolital theory has become in recent years with the rise of the video essay, which in turn, with some foundational knowledge of political and philosophical terms, made engaging with theoretical texts far easier. I think it’s really interesting that most people perceive these issues as normal, unavoidable or „the harsh reality“ – this understanding of things (called „capitalist realism“ by Mark Fisher) is one of those more ideological pieces of hostile architecture that maintain the status quo. I think now though, with capitalism struggling to bear its own weight, and leftist theory more accessible than ever, many more will make these same journeys of understanding.

The song title „Plattenbau Persephone Praxis“ in particular caught my eye. What relation does the mythological goddess of the underworld have to the lyrics of this track?
Originally the track was called „Persephone“ as a reference to the track that inspired its instrumental writing, „AFK“ from Ed Scissor and Lamplighter’s „Tell Them It’s Winter“, which features a character called Persephone, who is an object of the protagonist’s desire. When it came to writing the lyrics though, Persephone takes on an emblematic role of the objectified – in her story, in almost every retelling I have read, Persephone is at every point denied her agency, made into a possession by all characters in her story. In this context, the song is similarly about the late capitalist subject being denied their agency, isolated, unable to find meaning in their lot. It presents all of this in a manner intended to provoke empathy and mutual understanding between those subjects.

I have the impression that this time the lyrics are a lot more direct and concrete than on „Speak Not Of The Laudanum Quandary“. Was it a matter of concern for you to convey your message even more urgently?
It was – one of the issues I realised was present in the writing of „Speak Not…“ was that its poetic licence and abstraction allowed for an unintended plausible deniability of its message. The lyrics were ignorable; one could happily listen to it without particularly engaging with the critical perspective the album held, which felt like it missed the mark somewhat. It’s often a difficult balance to achieve – lyrics that are clear and concise without being trite. That said, I was determined to make it work. The message on this album I think doesn’t call for subtlety, it addresses the world of now. I needed people to understand the, as you say, urgency of its concerns. Ideally, nobody should be able to listen to the album without thinking on its ideological context.

You openly call yourselves a RABM band. In black metal, however, conservative and right-wing extremist thinking unfortunately is prevalent, whereas leftists seem to only make up a small minority. Have you been attacked because of your convictions up until this point?
Not terribly. The closest is people saying that it’s „not black metal“ which is fine by us. We have had some issues with more right wing bands in the UK scene but the overwhelming response has been positive. It feels like there’s a craving for music that engages in systemic critique beyond the „government/church bad“ level and engages directly with the experience of the listener.

A major problem of the political left seem to be its internal dissensions – tensions between different directions and between theory and practice are always a thing, and some even display authoritarian and militant tendencies. From your point of view, how could one work towards unification?
I completely agree that that is one of the major issues of organising in leftist spaces. Fundementally though, the core of the leftist movement is in boots-on-the-ground community action. Feeding, clothing, and sheltering one another. We lose our focus when we forget that, and we also lose our basis of support, our chance at a new world of any kind – the solidarity of the working class and all marginalised communities. If what you’re doing isn’t improving the lives of those around you, then what purpose does it serve in the pursuit of a liberated world? Talk to your neighbours, your community, see what they need, extend them kindness and understanding and solidarity. A raging twitter thread doesn’t take us any closer to liberation – feeding someone does.

The multitude of grievances in the world can be overwhelming and some people lack the time or financial means to do more than just get through everyday life. What advice would you give to people who are demotivated or overwhelmed, but still want to contribute to a positive change in the world?
I would firstly say that feeling demotivated and overwhelmed is completely understandable in the face of the current state of things. Sometimes, it is us that need support from our communities, and sometimes we can give that support to others – all that matters is engaging with that community. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. Remember that you’re not alone. Again, go and meet people, talk to them – sometimes the most powerful thing we can do to build a better world is show kindness and understanding.

Let’s get back to your new album. Your vocals sound quite challening throughout, in some parts you bring out particularly extreme screams. A bit provocatively asked: How long did it take after the recording until you could speak again?
(Laughs) I was a bit hoarse each day after recording vocals. At the time, I was recording vocals in the evenings after work, so we’d only record a few songs a night (which was plenty), but almost all the recording you hear on the record are done in one take. There was very little need to go back and „perfect“ everything – if it captured the energy of the song, it was right. As such, I recovered fairly quickly, we weren’t spending whole days obsessing and running me ragged!

Some parts, like the most extreme screams, but also the plaintive vocals in the quiet break in „Cable Street Again“ sound very emotionally charged. Is that theatricality serving the purpose of the narrative, or did those emotions sometimes burst out of you unplanned during the performance?
I didn’t go in with every emotional beat planned out in great detail. Really it was just whatever felt right in the moment. The honest expression of those feelings was a core component of the performance that I think might have been lost if ruthlessly constructed.

It’s noticeable that the album is shorter than your debut. This time you even released „Tragic Heroin“, a decidedly more compact track, as a first taste. Did you approach the songwriting differently than on your debut?
In retrospect, a lot of those old songs take a long time to get going, and it felt like that got in the way of people connecting with the music. Additionally, the older songs were very dense in terms of their musical ideas, and flitted from new idea to new idea. When approaching the writing of „Hostile Architecture“, I tried to work with fewer ideas, developing them more and letting them grow with each piece’s progression. „Tragic Heroin“ for example is really only three „ideas“. When writing it, it was my goal to be able to distil the ASHENSPIRE sound down into three minutes – an immediate and high energy piece that wasted no time. Setting yourself those creative limitations can be a great opportunity to grow as a musician.

With „Palimpsest“ you also included a short instrumental piece. For what reason did you insert such a breather into the already not too long album shortly before the finale?
„Palimpsest“ was an interesting one – really it arose from experimenting with glitchy breakbeat-style drums as one might find in Venetian Snares‘ music, plus rhythmic superimposition (5s superimposed on 7), plus the atmosphere of BADBADNOTGOOD… and I found that it suited the album really quite well. It might have had lyrics at one point but I didn’t feel it needed them. At any rate, with „Cable Street Again“ starting so abruptly, and the violent, chaotic end of „Apathy as Arsenic Lethargy as Lead“, I think it’s useful to have a small moment of reflection before embarking on the longest song of the album.

In the course of the record one can hear all kinds of guest contributions, including instruments that are new to your sound, such as the dulcimer and the saxophone. What inspired you to incorporate these things into your sound?
I love saxophone – such an intensely expressive instrument. It’s so close to a human voice in many ways, timbrally and in its range, which made it easy to write for, and I’ve seen it used in a lot of modern jazz and contemporary classical contexts where it’s a truly extreme instrument, using extended techniques like screaming and tongue pizzicato. As such, it felt quite natural to make music for this album with it – it captured something quitessentially more modern and of the era of some of the iconography that makes up the album. As for dulcimer, it feels like more of a callback sound, something of long ago, more like our first album – I wanted to open the album with a bridging sound to the new record before transcending that and letting it sit firmly in the new sound. I also had the pleasure of performing with Botanist when I played in Enneract, and I was excited by the possibility of collaborating!

Are there any other instruments you’d like to incorporate into your sound in the future?
I’m currently experimenting with ferric tape and other analogue recording/processing equipment to develop new sounds for a third album. As for other instruments, we’ll have to see what is available and best evokes the feelings being expressed in future music – much experimentation to be done!

The violin playing, on the other hand, seems to have taken a bit of a back seat this time around. Would too many string parts have taken away too much of the album’s vehemence in your opinion?
It’s hard to say. I turned to write violin when I felt violin was what best expressed the feeling in the music; we did in a few places actually cut violin parts because they distratcted from the energy of the moment. I don’t think there could have been any more or less violin than is there. Again, a beautiful and expressive instrument, and with James and Matthew being brothers, I think their dynamic between sax and violin strengthened both components on the album.

What are your next plans for ASHENSPIRE?
We’re planning on taking this music as far afield as possible, spending time on the road and really continuing to hone our craft, whilst preparing another record!

Finally, a quick brainstorming session. What do you associate with the following terms?
Gentrification: If landlords didn’t control our housing, if everyone was fed and clothed, I’d be all over people making nicer versions of things that I like. Having luxuries cannot come at the expense of people being forced from their homes.
Cancel culture: Community accountability and justice is about calling someone in, not calling them out. Shouting at someone on the internet might sate the impulse to fight injustice, but it doesn’t disrupt the status quo, and rarely heals hurt.
Avant-garde: There are many boundaries to push. Some more important than others.
Urban gardening: Greenery is a human need. Plants make concrete beautiful.
Feel-good music: Joy is as important a human emotion as any other. I don’t want to live in a world withought laughter and dancing.
Utopia: One must be able to imagine a world that seems impossible if we are to make any progress at all.

Thank you again for the interview. I would like to leave the last words to you:
Thank you all for your time. Onwards and upwards.

Publiziert am 11. August 2022 von Stephan Rajchl