Interview mit Sharon den Adel von Within Temptation

You were releasing single songs over the few past years, starting with „Entertain You“ in 2020. So what prompted you to take this rather uncommon approach, releasing single songs instead of a full album?
Well, in the beginning the idea was to just write some songs for the tour with Evanescence through Europe. We thought, okay, we’re going to do this co-headline tour, we need to bring something new, music that people haven’t heard while touring, to give them something special, something new. That was the initial reason to write new music and to release it in the coming months. But then COVID happened and everybody was at home and we didn’t know how long that was going to take. And it took way longer than we thought. So we kept on releasing things that we had written. And that’s why there’s so many singles out now today. And yeah, to keep that engagement of our fans also towards the new album, we had to give them a little bit more than we initially had planned.

But it was your initial plan to do an album and not just releasing single songs, and not a new approach facing people’s new listening habits in the streaming age?
Well, this is the first time that we are releasing an album on our own, independently. So it was something that we were still not sure of while doing that, because we thought: Let’s see what we’re going to do. Maybe write an album, maybe we won’t. And we changed our minds in those years a few times. And eventually we decided to bring out an album because of our fans. We were going to write a completely new album, with only songs that are new. But it would have been a bit strange to have released four songs, that we really liked, during the pandemic, and then not ending up on an album. And then we got that remark back a lot. So we felt like, yeah, it is strange, because then you have maybe everything of the band and you don’t have those four songs on an album. So that would have been crazy as well. So we changed our minds eventually.

You already said it: You started with your own label for this album as well, which is a huge step, I think, because there’s a lot of work to do in addition to the art. Is it only a positive thing for you or do you also regret it in some way that it’s way more work than expected or something like that?
Well, both. It is exactly what you think: It gives you more opportunity to decide on the spot to change your mind, even to do things differently than you decided earlier, and also to release whenever you want to. But on the other hand, there is more work, of course. And it means it takes time away from the creative side of things. But we have a management and we have a distribution office that we work with. And so we’re happy with that. And that helps a lot. But still, you have to do more than you normally did, which is not creative, of course. But this is very creative.

But do you think that the concept of a band being signed to label is kind of outdated today? So with the Internet streaming and every possibilities for bands to do the promotional work on their own, are labels more like obsolete?
Well, I think metal is very traditional compared to some other music genres. But it’s good to keep an open mind what works for you in what stage of your career, of course, because when you’re a new band just starting, it’s very good to sign up with a record company also to see what the possibilities are, because you don’t know everything in the beginning. And of course, this way we could see throughout the years what they were doing and learn from that – and also make different decisions: Now that we have the opportunity to do it ourselves, we would do certain things differently. Releasing the singles was one of the reasons. I don’t think we could have done so many singles up front of an album with the traditional record company. (laughs) So for us, it was really good. But as a starting band, I think it’s sometimes good just to sign for one or two albums with a major or something or a small label and learn from that period and just try to learn yourself how to do it maybe differently when you are able to be independent.

Yeah, sounds right. Do you have any plans to release albums from other bands as well on your label at some point? So will it be maybe also for newcomer bands as well? Or is it only for WITHIN TEMPTATION?
For now, it’s mainly for ourselves. And the thing is, we still need to figure out how we want to do things and what works best. But maybe it’s a good idea for the future. (laughs) Coming from a musician, trying to help other musicians … that would be a nice way to spend our time as well besides our own music.

We were already talking about those single releases … How did you then turn these individual songs into an album? I mean, usually you write the material for an album in a shorter period of time, and record all songs at once, which makes sure that it sounds coherent, musicwise and soundwise. But in this case, years have passed between songs … So how did you proceed with those singles? Did you rerecord o rat least remix and remaster them for the full legth?
Yeah, well, it’s a good question, because I had my doubts in the beginning, like, oh, how are we going to do this all together? Are we going to remix it? But we didn’t. The funny thing is, you are WITHIN TEMPTATION, of course, so your DNA is in every song of that. And somebody said it really nicely when I was talking to an interviewer lately, and he said, like, you can see what happened in the world the last five years, the changes, more or less, within your album, because you have the social themes that you have what happened in Iran, the war in the Ukraine, and some other topics, which are very important … religion, and abandonment of the abortion laws in certain countries, which inspired „Don’t Pray For Me“ as well.

And so there’s a lot of topics in there that have been a big topic in the last few years that we were writing, actually. And all these songs are about the personal freedom of the individual – and fighting for that. It feels like a heavy album, which it is and it has heavy topics. But it’s actually a cry for freedom. And it’s about freedom. Freedom is the word, which is the central part that comes back in every song. And music wise, I think it does really work together. especially when you hustle it up, you know, make a certain setlist, like we’ve done for this album, I think it’s really working very well, actually. And but I had my doubts, I must be honest about that. But I’m really happy that it did turn out okay for us.

No, don’t get me wrong here: It worked out perfect! I was just wondering how you did it. So you didn’t remaster the songs. So you have the songs on the album as they were a single releases?
Yes, exactly. But I think if it had been necessary, I would have done that.

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You have already touched the political aspects of the album and that we can see the evolution of our society over the last few years in the lyrics of the album. When did you realize that you wanted to take a stand on those concrete topics? So was that kind of revival experience? Or was it a process that you realized that you want to go in a more political direction with the lyrics for WITHIN TEMPTATION?
I think we started already with „Resist“, talking a little bit more openly about what we are seeing in the world and what we are afraid of and what we think are dangers for the society and the European Union, but also globally. When we started, we were a bit afraid to do that, because, you know, it’s a minefield to talk about politics, because it easily happens that you say something wrong, or people interpret in the wrong way, because you’re also depending on the journalists who translate it in a different language sometimes. And hopefully, they understand what you’ve been trying to say, and hopefully with the right words, because it’s a very thin line. That’s why we stayed away from it. But now we’re getting older and we see that nothing has changed, actually, for the better, but it only has gotten worse to certain topics … the climate, but also the war is happening. How Russia is mangling, trying to get their foot in every election around the world, if it’s Brexit, or if it’s the American elections, even here in the Netherlands, there’s been evidence that they’re trying to get [influence], they’re working on a destabilization of countries, especially in Europe.

All these things are happening and they are quite dangerous. And we feel … we didn’t even took that decision, like something that we did, like, say: Oh, we’re going to do this. It was  more like it happened gradually, that we felt the need to [do this]. When we start writing, we start talking about the world and what happened, what’s on our minds, and what hurt us, or what we felt was distressing or frustrating. But also good things. So you talk about it, and everybody’s talking about their own ideas about that and it ends up somehow in your mind and in your creative process. And then you finally start working on music, and listen a little bit to music, and then somehow it ends up on your album. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn’t. But in this album, you could almost hear what topics we had been talking about that morning.

I think it’s amazing, because I have the feeling that, especially in the metal scene, it’s not very popular anymore to be political as a band at all. And I think that was different in the earlier days of metal, because there was a strong sense for freedom, and democracy, and so on. Do you see that like that as well? So did we lose the courage for political topics in metal?
That’s a good question. I don’t have the answer, to be honest, but I have been thinking why it’s not happening more. I can’t look in anyone’s mind, and it’s difficult to say why people are not choosing for it. Maybe it’s not inspirational to them, or maybe they have other things that they think are more important to write about, which is, of course, an individual choice. And like I said, it is a minefield, so it is dangerous, because before you know it, it can backfire really, really fast. So you need to know what you’re talking about. And as a musician, you’re not an expert. Nobody’s an expert. You should leave that up to the journalist, you should leave that up to people who really do research. But on the other hand, I must say, we do read a lot about it. And it’s not like … I’ll never say that I’m an expert, so I always keep that disclaimer in there. But that’s the beautiful thing, that we are living in a democracy, and we can talk to each other, and we can agree to disagree, and also tell each other, like, maybe you have this wrong, maybe you should read this article, because it shows something totally different. We have so many forms of news that we can take to us, that we can learn from, that we can judge and look at subjects from different points of view, where in some countries like Iran and Russia, they can’t.

But I have the feeling that many people, in Germany or whatever, don’t do that anymore … they don’t believe in science and journalism and the facts it provides. So do you think that maybe art, like your lyrics, is in some way a better way to address topics like that and to make people curious about what’s happening in the world? So do we need political lyrics?
I think, we come across the same problems: When you say „Ukraine“, everybody’s like, oh, not again. It’s like, why, you know, because you’re fatigued from it. But the way that we try to reach our fans, and maybe that’s also the way that journalism could do that sometimes a bit better – well, the programs that I’m watching here on television in the Netherlands are pretty good, actually … I’m not sure how it is in Germany – but it’s more about the personal stories of people, and then people can connect. If it starts just with something about „a war“, it doesn’t sound personal. But when you talk about somebody who is living there, who is maybe a public figure, who used to do something else, but now is fighting in the war. If you see that whole process of a few months, or maybe a year, that how their life has changed, and if you see that on television, it hurts you. There will be empathy for them.

We should tell those stories more often, like, what it is like to be in the Ukraine, and to go through that. We need to tell the personal stories. I think that’s the way to connect to the people that, feel like that the war is taking place somewhere else, and has nothing to do with them. Because it’s not a nice thing to constantly hear about and to be busy with. But on the other hand, for your country … it’s even close to my country. For me, it’s only two and a half hours flight to Kiev. For you it is even less, it’s so close to your country! And I think if Poland decides to vote this Sunday for the right-wing party, it will be another country that will be like Russia, more or less, because then it goes the wrong direction with Europe, because then you have Poland that’s more like Russia, and then you have Ukraine, maybe losing support again from allies within Europe. And we’ll see that if Ukraine does get taken by Russia, you see slowly that a lot of countries will be under Russian regime or become dictatorship-like countries. There will be less democracy, and there will be less unity in Europe, because Poland will probably go away from the European Union. So those kind of things are very dangerous. They’re bringing it closer towards us, the more countries which are flip over to Russia and the mindset of Russia. And that is very dangerous. I think you have elections also very soon, right?

We had some local elections in Germany, but not the all-German elections for the government. Those will be held again in two years …
We don’t have a government right now. We have to choose again very soon. And in Poland, of course, there’s elections now going on. We just had it in Slovenia. You see, there’s a shift there, and it worries me, to be honest.

You have already indicated the fatigue for such topics … did you also get negative reactions on political songs from fans that are not comfortable with their favorite bands doing political songs now?
Yes, we did! Especially people from Hungary, where we also took the flag for the Ukraine on stage. People have also applauded. There were people pro and people against. In countries like France or Germany, most of the time it’s positive. But the more you go towards the Russian border, so like Hungary, it’s a bit less. But although it depends a little bit with their own experiences with Russia, because there are also countries like Czech Republic, for instance, which was really more positive in the reaction towards the Ukrainian flag, because they had their interaction with Russia themselves throughout history and are against Russia. So it depends on what the stand is. You can immediately feel it when you play in a certain country: Okay, this party is bigger than that party, and it’s more pro-Russian or anti-Russian.

But we take out that flag every time, just to make a point like, okay, if this was your country being invaded by Russia, would you just say, okay, come in, have a cup of tea? Or are you going to fight for your family and your house, your friends, your country, of course? I think everybody will do that. So how can people say, like, they shouldn’t fight anymore, just give them a part of your country, and we won’t talk about it. It’s a bit like if we would say in the Netherlands, for instance, Belgium was part of the Netherlands many hundred years ago, then we would say now again, like, okay, we want to have, you know, only Brussels, the rest can keep, you know. (laughs) We won’t take anybody, you know, we won’t hurt anybody anymore, just give us Brussels, and we’ll be, you know, we just go about it like it’s normal. It’s crazy! You don’t do that! It’s beyond, I don’t know. It’s just frustrating.

Frustrating is an interesting aspect, because it touches my next question: I mean, from „Mother Earth“ to „Bleed Out“, it’s a long way, so to say, and a big step as well. Letting this „shadow side“ of the world into your own art today … are you sometimes afraid that your music could get a bitter taste for the listeners, but also for yourself sometimes?
Well, I think probably „Mother Earth“ is the most happiest album we’ve ever made. But also there a song like „Deceiver of Fools“ is actually about politics again. Only one that we never talked about as much as we could have and should have, actually, looking back on it. I agree with you to a certain point, but I don’t feel like this album is a very… it is a heavy album, and a bit dark, but it’s also very powerful and empowering. So I see it more like a scream for freedom, like empowerment for people, individuals, hopefully, that feel empowered because of the music. When I was younger, my favorite band was Nirvana. When I was really frustrated, when I was really sad or angry, but also when I was happy, I could listen to their music. It’s like, you know, all over the place, and really expressive, and it’s, of course, different music, but with the same kind of feel to it, maybe also, because it’s energetic, and it’s dark, and it’s „wraaaaah!“, you know? (laughs) And for me, every time I listened to the music, I was like, okay, now I can go on with my life again, because I listened to that, and I just jumped around my living room, and I can go on again. So I think that the album is more going to that direction than that it’s very dark and gloomy without any hope. There is hope in there as well!

That’s true, it’s more encouraging than depressing, definitely. So for the last few minutes, I would head over to the topic of your visuals. So you were using artificial intelligence for some visualizations lately. So how did you come in contact with this topic of AI for videos at all, and what appeals you to this implementation?
Yes, we used it for the last video that we’ve just released, and the next one we are going to release. The thing is that, you know, we were working on a new video, sitting in the studio, okay, what we’re going to do. A bit bored also, like, okay, another video, what we’re going to do this time? And with this heavy topic, how are you going to express what you want to bring across as an essence? That’s very difficult with the traditional way of making a video. And then all of a sudden, we got this TikTok video sent by someone, like, did you see this? This is going to change the world. It’s going to be … look at this, it’s AI! And we were blown away by the possibilities. It was crazy. So we contacted the guy, who made that, and we said, well, we want to work with you! We can’t do a traditional video anymore, you’ve got this, we’re going to do this. (laughs) And then we called our video director, and I said, okay, you know, we were talking about a traditional video, but we want to use AI for it as well.

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So what we did was, especially with „Bleed Out“, that we filmed a normal video, like we always do … so there were actors, there was a band … the whole crew that normally is there, was there as well. So we didn’t cut anybody out. It didn’t make it cheaper, it made it more expensive, actually, because AI never does what you want it to do. It’s horrific, most of the time. So it took us one and a half months to get the lip sync and everything filmed and the whole story together. And although it’s not perfect with lip sync, we do love what it turned out, because it became so different from all the other videos we’ve done so far. And it’s new technology, and we love that. But of course, technology also is always ahead of lawmaking and laws, and we did the dangerous, especially in other corners, where it can be dangerous. So we hope that laws will be there soon. So everybody knows what is allowed to use. But you know, technology always goes before the lawmaking. (laughs) I think the government’s already working really hard to make laws as we speak. I think this is the industrial revolution of our time, because, of course, people have to look differently to their jobs, probably in the end. And now that the genie is out of the bottle, you can’t put it back in, unfortunately.

Definitely. In how far will it affect music as well? Because I mean, there’s already some album artworks done with AI. Now we have videos. Do you think there will be also AI metal bands with lyrics or also music from AI?
I was in a TV program last week, and the presenter said, you have to watch this, Sharon. And it was like this Japanese pop-music girl band. And but then he said, yeah, all these girls are not real. They’re fake, but the music is real. So it was sang real, by people, but the people you see are not real, but they look very real. (laughs) So I was really surprised! Apparently, we will play around with this. And I’m not sure how good this will turn out eventually. But I think people will still want rather to see a real band playing and performing and have real emotions than something that comes from a computer. Although, of course, they’re directed by a human because behind everything AI selects or that is selected within the AI, there is a person, a human. And I don’t know what other people will do. But I will never use it for music. Because that’s, for me, the most magical thing in my life: At one moment, there’s no music, and the second moment, we have created something together. That is every time the most beautiful process there is. So I would never try to use AI for that. But yeah, I know that the people that we work with, for instance, the directors and everybody around us, creative people have started using AI a lot for all kinds of purposes already. It’s there, and it’s difficult to put back and take out again, I guess.

You said that you love using new technologies, and I think you also hear that in the sound of WITHIN TEMPTATION as well. It’s not usual that a band that has been around for as long as you have, is still curious to do something really new every time. So what is your secret? What drives you to keep modifying your sound and your whole band image over the years?
Well, I think we’re easily bored. So like, when we have done something, we want to do something new. That’s one reason. And also, we’re not even capable of doing the same thing. So that’s the reason why we try to keep on pushing it and try new things every time again, and we will do so for the future as well.

Thank you very, very much for your time. Have a nice day!
Thank you very much. Thank you for the interview. Thank you. Have a nice day!

Publiziert am 20. Oktober 2023 von Moritz Grütz

Fotos von: Afra Gethöffer-Grütz