Interview mit Attila Csihar von Mayhem

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MAYHEM have just released their seventh studio album, „Liturgy Of Death“. In this interview, frontman Attila cheerfully discusses the extent to which the band limits itself thematically, why he now lives a straight edge lifestyle, and how MAYHEM remain underground despite their ugly Christmas sweater merchandise.

You have written all the lyrics for the new album. What kind of mood do you have to be in to write lyrics for a MAYHEM album?
It’s like a trance-like mood, or I don’t know what’s the word for it, when I have my channels open … I can’t write it like, for instance, this beautiful morning. It’s not like I have a list of topics and I pick one of these, this is going to work. No, it’s more like I got this vision, and I had this thing just manifesting, which is crazy. When I realized it’s so profound, it’s so deep-meaning, I just realized it’s such a big challenge, and I was thinking I’m 55 now, maybe I’m grown up enough to deal with that.

This just came to me, and I realized how deep it is, and then I just started to make scratches, and when I feel the inspiration, sometimes I just sit down and write it quickly, and then I come back to this later. I have a lot of notes. I try to get the right inspiration at the right time. It cannot just be on any time. But of course, I have to also push myself a little bit into it. It’s kind of half work, half trance-like state. I enjoy it, actually. I mostly enjoy playing live, but composing, writing is also good.

„I’m totally straight edge now.
Actually, I don’t even do coffee“

It’s not a secret that you’re a huge fan of cannabis as well, so are drugs something that help you to get into that trance-like mood, or do you prefer to stay sober when working on lyrics, for example?
That’s true, I love cannabis, but I don’t know how it came … I am acutally straight edge now. (laughs) I stopped doing it. We’ll see how long it takes. I think it comes with my age maybe, but I think when I wrote the lyrics, probably I smoked a little bit here or there, but it’s not a crucial thing. It’s not about that. Actually, I think it’s better when I’m clean. But sometimes inspirations come under the effect of cannabis.It’s OK, you know. But I don’t like to be high and then work. It’s actually the other way around. I prefer to do it and then maybe have a spliff and then look into it. But then again, I’m totally straight edge now. Actually, I don’t even do coffee. I do black tea – that’s my highest thing … (laughs)

As far as the lyrics are concerned, MAYHEM’s basic tone is already set – it has to be about something dark, about death and destruction. Do you feel restricted by this in creative terms?
Yes, in a way, you’re right. It’s a limitation. I mean, my lyrics are pretty dark. It’s a MAYHEM album, so it has to be, I think. I kind of focussed on my darkest thoughts and sides, when I wrote it. In a few songs, though, there is a release. There are different aspects … I’m coming from many aspects to this theme, which is, again, the most universal theme every human being has to face with it. It’s normally very scary and dark. I think all darkness and dark art is coming from the death theme, eventually. But I also try to enforce it or enlighten that aspect, that that is also the end of the suffering, the end of the confusion, the end of this whole misery in life, you know, the end of our problems and our pain and our sicknesses and our limitations and everything. So all our karma or what we carry through life. In that sense, it has a light aspect, too.

„I’m also a human being – fortunately and unfortunately“

But when I write for MAYHEM, there is kind of a limitation, because I personally actually have a light side, too. But my whole life and everything is about the dark side for me somehow, it turned out like that. But that’s kind of balanced out. I’m also a human being – fortunately and unfortunately. I’m here, too, dealing with stuff, I have family, I have loved ones, I love animals, pets, I love the sun, you know, I love nature. So it’s not like I’m just completely a dark person. But yeah, when it comes to MAYHEM and my art in general, it’s always kind of limited into that. Or it’s just more like it’s coming naturally. I don’t feel natural if I write about the other side. Somehow this is my path.

In the very first song, „Ephemeral Eternity“, there’s also a passage in Hungarian language. What inspired you for this language shift within one of the songs?
I just thought it’s cool. Why not? Some people inspired me to do so. My bandmates sometimes asked, and even other people, why I don’t use Hungarian, as Hungarian is my native language. I’m a Hungarian, so it’s a little bit for the Hungarian people. It just sounded cool. It’s a very ancient and pretty unique language. It’s very, very standalone somehow. So all this together inspired me.

„Euronymous and Dead are obviously
always part of the band“

Including the bonus tracks, the last words you sing on the album are „Deathlike Silence“ – I guess thats not a coincidence, but a reference to Euronymous‘ label?
Yes, absolutely … it’s no coincidence. I have those guys always in my mind, you know. Euronymous and Dead are obviously always part of the band, and at the live shows we still always invoke them: Every night, every MAYHEM-show, and it’s been decades now, I invoke them. People won’t hear it … normally, I do it in the songs from „De Mysteries Dom Satanas“, for instance during „Life Eternal“, when the long intro part starts, I whisper their names and I invoke them. But not only them, even like my friend Jon Nödtveidt or Joy Jordison, who passed away … or some other musicians, friends, I was spiritually connected. So I invoke all my musicians‘ friends who passed away … but especially them. This new album is also about that, so they are crucial, they are the death in our family. They already passed away, so it’s a little bit to mention them, and it’s a little bit like going back to that, and yeah, kind of invoking them in that sense.

How important are the lyrics for you in general in the context of the total work of art that an album is? Is it more like you have to have some lyrics to be able to add your vocals like another instrument, or is it more about a message?
I wish I could take it easy, man! No, for me it’s so heavy and hard and deep. The last album, „Daemon“, was a little bit different because I got everyone involved in the process of writing the lyrics, so it was a little bit less personal, but for „Ordo Ad Chao“ I did a lot of work, like research … so at least for myself, it means a lot. And then it’s interesting to see how much people get it. Of course it’s a lyric, I can’t really explain what it is. It has to be an artistic piece, and it’s kind of cryptic, but yeah, it has a deep meaning. I wish I could just take it easy, like just write any lyrics.

You mentioned earlier that you’ve been doing this for decades now – four, to be precise. Necrobutcher recently stated that MAYHEM is nevertheless still an underground band. Do you agree with him in this point? Would you say MAYHEM is still underground? And if so, how would you define „underground“ in this context?
I would say I agree, yes. I mean, actually, our name is huge. MAYHEM is much bigger these days … I don’t think we changed. Look at our back catalogue from these 40 years: It’s not like we try to aim any commercial values. It’s more the other way around. Well, maybe the last two records, because with the last album, we went back a little bit to the origin, you know. But if you look at the albums from before … and also the last album, „Daemon“: It was probably affected by the fact that we had a long „De Mysteriis Dom Satanas“ tour before, so that’s how „Daemon“ kind of shifted back. But it’s never planned, but somehow it’s a stream, it’s like a flow. So we came from „Daemon“ into the „Liturgy Of Death“ album.

„In that sense, I think we are pretty underground:
We never sold our asses“

But it’s these connections: If you look at „Grand Declaration Of War“ … I don’t think it’s a commercial record at all. And then it came together with „Chimera“ somehow, that’s the Maniac era. After that, I did „Ordo Ad Chao“, which is, again, anything but a commercial record. And that’s connecting with „Esoteric Warfare“. And these two albums now, again … so I don’t know what will be next, but this is how it goes. And in that sense, I think we are pretty underground: We never sold our asses. And People make movies about us, that we have nothing to do with. We even actually tried to stop that … and it was not possible! So it is what it is, and of course, the history of the band made it very well known. But I don’t think, we are artistically serving. It’s not like we don’t want to. This is just natural: We just can’t do it. Actually, I feel a huge opposition, a resistance in myself and it feels like it’s getting too easy, you know. It should never be like that.

When you say that it has become too easy: Do you think that black metal in general has become too commercial or mainstream over the last years? I mean, bands like BEHEMOTH and SATYRICON are filling up huge venues those days. Are we experiencing a black metal hype?
Definitely! But I mean, we don’t! OK, we also have a little bit bigger crowd, but we are not like BEHEMOTH. We don’t play in these arenas, or I don’t know what those guys are doing. With my full respect, they are all my friends, Adam and everyone. They are super cool people, but everybody is going his own path. We always took the harder way. But anyway: I come from the 1980s with TORMENTOR, when we already played a lot of shows … I already had the same crowd with TORMENTOR. (laughs) For me, nothing changed! Seriously, MAYHEM didn’t play in the 1980s. We had a lot of shows with TORMENTOR, and in Hungary we had crowds of about 1,000 people already. And then the whole thing died. It looked like dying, and came the Norwegians, when it was super underground. At that time to wear an inverted cross and look like a black metal dude and walk around the street was like a straight call for some trouble. It was different.

But now there is a huge crowd: Look at festivals like HELLFEST. I could never imagine. It started as an extreme festival and it’s huge. It’s one of the biggest metal festivals in the world now. And there are like 100,000 people, it’s insane. It’s a good thing, I think … for us, I don’t mind, you know. But it also says we’ve been right. We’ve been right from day one, because at that time we were so alone. We’ve been treated like terrorists almost. It was super crazy. And it shows that we were right in time. Time told that. Time always tells who is right and who is wrong. And it’s going to be the same again, I guess: We’ll see which value will remain. Our value, or SATYRICON or BEHEMOTH or maybe all of us … time will tell, you know.

„We are self-destructive, as well.
We destroy even our own image“

But in some way, MAYHEM are part of this as well: Around Christmas, I saw officially licensed MAYHEM-merchandise, with the „De Mysteriis Dom Satans“-Artwork, but also Santa Claus riding over the church in his reindeer sleigh, and the claim „De Mysteriis Dom Santa“. Which is, to be honest, quite funny in some way, but … OK, you look like you don’t know what I’m talking about?
I have no idea who the fuck is doing this shit, you know. Of course, we have…

It was EMP from Germany.
OK … I’m not sure what it is. Actually, sometimes they [the other members of MAYHEM] like to joke. That’s true. I mean, we have a dark humor and without that we couldn’t survive. So, we have to somehow crack our own ice sometimes. But it should not go over the top. I didn’t know about this shirt. I will ask them about it … what the hell. But I saw other stuff like „De Mysteriis Dom Bahamas“ and all this shit. It’s okay. I mean, it’s not coming from me. People do whatever they want, even my band mates … sometimes, they go a little bit over the top, but it’s true: We are not a band like… We are not like fucking death saints with a poker face, and stuff. No. I like humor, too. But I never like to joke with art. There is a thin line how far you can go. Dark humor and irony is not the same. Sometimes, we go over the top, but, you know, MAYHEM … we don’t care. It’s freedom of art, too, you know. We are self-destructive, as well. We destroy even our own image, which is not healthy, but it is what it is. We like to build and destroy, also, in a way.

So, when it comes to the music, the new album was written by Morton „Teloch“ Iversen and Charles Hedger. Both are a part of MAYHEM for like 15 years now, but I think that for many fans there are still two parties in MAYHEM, the OGs and these young, „new guys“. Did MAYHEM in some way go over to the next generation with them writing the music and shaping the style of MAYHEM now, or how does this look from the inside point of view?
First of all, I think this is the longest lasting lineup of MAYHEM ever, so it’s pretty steady. And secondary: Yeah, you say 15 years and they are still „youngsters“ … that’s crazy to think about, and I’m sorry about that. I don’t think it should be like that, but what can we say? I’ve been there for, what? Since 1991, 25 years or something. The others, 40 years, or I don’t know, where we start to count from. So in that sense, even I’m „new“ in the band, compared to Nekro or even Hellhammer. When I started to play music, like, when I was on the stage for the first time in 1985 or 1986, I was 15. And I remember I loved BLACK SABBATH already, and I looked at BLACK SABBATH pictures and I was like, who are these super old guys with this big mustache? And at that time, BLACK SABBATH was 15 years old. Now MAYHEM is 40 years old! It’s crazy.

„I can’t even imagine how these kids think about us“

What goes through your mind when you hear this number, nearly half a century of MAYHEM?
It is what it is, but this new generation is coming! That’s for sure. I see young people in the crowd, which is amazing. For me BLACK SABBATH were like old people – a 15 years old band. I can’t even imagine how these kids think about us. When someone in their teenage, comes to see these old dudes playing extreme metal on stage. It’s weird. But they feel super enthusiastic, and I love to see them. These young people come to the show, with the whole face in corpsepaint. They are in the first row. I see these open eyes of this young fans … they are totally in trance, mesmerized It’s crazy. But, yeah, I’m doing a ritual every night, so I’m just channeling. I don’t do anything. I’m just channeling this ritual. So, I guess that works, otherwise, why they would be there.

Talking about the lineup and how stable it is, if you think back to the point when Blasphemer left after „Ordo Ad Chao“: Was it questionable whether the band had a future? As far as I remember, Morten then came along like a savior and basically brought the music for „Esoteric Warfare“ with him?
I don’t think it’s true. He didn’t have the album ready. We started to work together when he joined.
He had some ideas, but we kind of turned them down, actually. Then he had to start again… this is a typical MAYHEM thing … (laughs) But it’s true, it’s was really, really difficult. After Blasphemer left, I was actually … not heartbroken, but I don’t how to say: We had so much on the same page and we were a really good creative force, but I understood his choice at the end, and I respected it, of course. We all respected it. It was his decision to leave the band for whatever the reason. But it was really difficult to find a replacement: Morton was at that time not available, he was in GORGOROTH. Charles was in CRADLE OF FILTH at that point, which sounds a little bit strange, but I have nothing against that band, actually. I don’t know, if people complain … I don’t really care. I look at the persons, and he just happened to play in that band. Anyway, we didn’t want to break up other bands to get some people out of them, so we had to deal with Krister [Dreyer, alias Morfeus] and Vagus Nox. They were also great, but somehow the chemistry didn’t work.

„This is really hard to make people to believe in it“

To be in MAYHEM takes more than just to be in a band. You really have to sacrifice your life. Charles sometimes jokes to me. You know, I told him, dude, are you sure you want to destroy your life? And he sometimes referes to that. It’s a joke, of course, but I tell him: I warned you, man! (laughs) But seriously, it takes a lot more then just playing in a random band. Your life is going to be around it, and your life will be in this dark energy and around this darkness. It’s a lot to carry on your shoulder. It’s a crazy history, a crazy heritage, and it’s about integrity. It’s not an easy task, actually. Even when I came in for the first time: I started playing live when I was 15, and I was always super secure, and I was kicking ass on stage. When I went on stage with MAYHEM, in the first half year or year, I felt like, holy shit, this is so different. It’s not that easy. This is really hard to make people to believe in it. People have expectations when they come to a MAYHEM show, and to make them to believe, to trust in us, to trust that it’s true, what I’m saying … that was a heavy task. So I guess it’s the same for the guitar players, too. It’s very difficult. Blasphemer put a very high standard, also Euronemus. Those are big shoes to fill!

You guys have 40 years of MAYHEM in the books, you are over 50 now yourself … what do you think, how long will MAYHEM be around? Do you plan to play live at the age of 60 or 70 as well, or are there any plans to retire?
I don’t know … we’ll see. Everybody says we sound better than ever, and I couldn’t hear bigger compliments than that. That’s crazy to achieve that as a 40 years old band. I mean, it’s up to Hellhammer: We always tell each other it’s time to take care of our health. I’m doing planks every day, I’m Straight Edge now. I’m kind of like facing with the fact that we are getting older, so we can’t do the same crazy shit as before, but that’s OK.

Personally, I’m pretty much the opposite of retireing – TORMENTOR is on fire with the original lineup. I have my solo stuff, VOID OF VOICES, I just started a new experimental band with Igor Cavalera. And also, I’m working on something with Rhys Fulber from FRONTLINE ASSEMBLY, who is my hero from the 1980s. So I’m still going on full on – it’s rather too much. But I love to play music, music is my life: My hobby is hi-fi. I’m listening to music all the time. I’m doing music all the time. It’s music and my family – that’s it … maybe my Harley Davidson. Sometimes I ride it in the city, not going to any tours. So that’s all my life about. It’s music and my family. Actually, music is taking much more time than my family normally. (laughs) It’s a bit sad. I try to save time, but it’s hard to say no for these projects with Igor or with Rhys. I always promise myself no more bands, and it’s always happening again. (laughs) It’s a bit sad. I try to save time, but it’s hard to say no for these projects with Igor or with Rhys. I always promise myself no more bands, and it’s always happening again.