The release of the new KATATONIA album “Nightmares As Extensions Of The Waking State” was overshadowed by a personnel decision. We spoke to band leader Jonas Renkse about the background to the departure of founding member Anders “Blakkheim” Nyström and what he thinks of the idea of two bands called KATATONIA – but also about the details of the album’s production.
Your new album is entitled “Nightmares as Extensions Of The Waking State”, which implies kind of that the waking state itself is a nightmare. Do you refer this to the political situation in the world, or what is it about?
It could be, but to me, it’s just a record title that ties together the songs. When I was trying to come up with something, I thought about the songs as being small stories in themselves. They all deal with something that is based on reality, but could also be seen as a nightmare, because they’re pretty negative. But I mean, it could be also a take on the state of the world today, if you want. (laughs)
So the songs are not directly connected, but deal with different topics within the loose framework of this idea you just mentioned?
Yeah, definitely. But I mean, as we always do, we write about this kind of topics, but it’s not a concept album. It’s just loosely based around the same kind of themes.
I really like the song title “Wind Of No Change” – it’s a nice play with words. What is this particular song about?
I had the music written and was trying to come up with lyrics, or basically I was trying to come up with some vocal melodies first. And for some reason, I kept singing this “Wind of No Change”. I thought it just sounded really nice to sing. And then when I wrote the lyrics, I wanted to keep it. I mean, it’s tongue in cheek with the whole Scorpions song thing, of course, which I found funny because their song is a very positive one. And it’s a great song, but you know, this is something else. I tried to steer the whole lyric into a bit of a satanic thing because I was sort of thinking back on the past of my formative years as an aspiring metal musician and metal fan foremost, and how much I love the satanic imagery of bands like Deicide and Morbid Angel and even Merciful Fate. And all of that spoke to me in a way … still to this day, I’m kind of obsessed with those bands and what they did back then, because I still love the music and I listen to it all the time. (laughs) And for this particular song, I was also listening to some old Merciful Fate stuff. When he sings “Hail Satan”, it sounds so good, it sounds so easy. It’s so obvious that it should be there, so I wanted to try something like that myself, and the chorus had musically already this straightforward vibe a … so I wanted to have something similar when it came to the lyrics.
You just mentioned that for this song, you were writing the lyric melody first and then the words. So is that what you usually do, or how is your working procedure for lyrics, melodies and songs?
These days I start trying to find the vocal melodies first, because back in the day I always started doing the lyrics and I realized later on that it made so much extra work for me. I mean, I was struggling first to write the lyric that I was happy with, which I then would have to cut down into pieces to make it work with the vocal melodies, because they aren’t always as the words suggest. Sometimes they have to be sung differently or in a different rhythm. So these days I start with the vocal melodies. I usually come up with a few keywords that I sing while doing so, and this is helping me to build the lyrics later on. But I do start with the melodies now, because it saves me time.
When it comes to the visuals: In which connection does the artwork stand to the title? Was it already painted, and you choose it as the artwork, or was it painted or for the album?
It’s a funny story: I was just starting to bounce ideas with Roberto Bordin, the guy who was doing the artwork. I sent him the lyrics and the album title. And we were still at the very beginning, talking about color schemes and stuff like that. But then the next day he sent me a sketch of the album cover, and he said, maybe this isn’t what you’re looking for, but I made this, and I just wanted to show you. I looked at it and I thought, this is perfect as it is. I don’t have to add anything. It definitely represents, for me at least, a nightmare scenario: If you see a deer that’s on fire, that just stands looking at you totally calm, then you will know something’s wrong. (laughs) We didn’t really change anything … I wanted the sky to be a little bit more purplish to enhance the sort of strangeness to the picture. But other than that, I just thought it was perfect. So that was a really good match.
That sounds like an easy process …
It was, yeah. Usually it takes a lot more time, but this one was very, very smooth.
As many fans already have noticed, the bird in the O from the KATATONIA logo is gone. Is it just a design thing, or the beginning of a new era?
We made a slight change of the logo and there is another bird actually for the O, but it’s not on the album because I wanted the album cover to be very clean. I think the artwork is so good, so I didn’t want to have any distractions. I thought it looked better without the bird, but it’s actually coming back in a different shape. We’re still connected to the birds!
If you put it all together – could the album be called a “solo album”? I mean, you did pretty much everything yourself on this record as far as the creative part is concerned, when it comes to writing the songs, lyrics, melodies…
Yeah, I did. And this is the third time in a row I do that. I don’t consider them solo albums. If you look at it that way, it could be seen as that, but for me, I’m definitely not a solo artist. I like the concept of a band, team work, all of that. But sometimes, I guess, it’s necessary to have someone that has a vision for the whole package, which I think I have, the sort of perspective. An album has to be made. I’ve done it before. I’m lucky enough to also be on a creative streak that has been going on for a few years now. So I still feel hungry. The challenge of writing music is funnier than ever for me. I never really stopped writing music. I keep writing music, even if we don’t have an album recording on the horizon or a deadline to adapt to. I mean, this album was finished in December, and I started writing new music already in January. Just to have. It’s pretty much just from my well-being. But it also gives me a head start, if the record label says it’s time to do a new album, to not have to start from scratch. It’s good to have stuff lying around that you can start working on easily. So that’s how I do it.
But is it really the record label guys who say you have to do a new album at this or that time?
Usually it’s our management actually, but I think that the record label might have a word or two to say about it, because they have to fit it in their schedules, and they release a lot of records, so they may say something like “if you want to have a new album out, you better do it in this time frame rather than next year, because then it’s going to be delayed”. So there are a lot of things to take into consideration when it comes to that. That’s could potentially sort of hinder creativity, so that’s also one of the good things with having some music already written, or having some ideas at least. So you don’t have to stress through, because that’s something I would never want to do.
You just mentioned that you did the last three albums more or less on your own, which fits to what was made public by Anders Nyström in his recent statement, when he stated that “City Burials” was initially planned as a solo album from yours and then you both rethought and made it a KATATONIA album instead. Was it actually your intention to do “City Burials” as your solo album at first, and if so, are you still planning to do a solo album besides KATATONIA at some point?
No, I don’t think I have the need to do a solo album, because I’m so content with KATATONIA, where we are musically. This is the stuff I want to do, really. And the thing with “City Burials” is: I was definitely writing it as a KATATONIA album. That was my plan to have it released as a KATATONIA album – but Anders, he didn’t want us to have a new album for some reason, I can’t remember what his idea was at the time, but he said like, I don’t think we should do a new album, and then I said, okay, so maybe I do a solo album with these songs – because I already have them written. But then he changed his mind and said, okay, we do a new album. So the first intention was never to do a solo album, that was just …
So it was more or less the other way around …
Yeah, exactly.
The split with Anders made some headlines recently. He wasn’t part of the KATATONIA live lineup for some years now. When was the point for you when you realized that not only was he no longer part of the band on stage, but that you could no longer work together as a band in general?
I think it happened when we had that European tour for the last album, “Sky Void Of Stars”, which he didn’t want to be part of, and he gave us two weeks of notice to find someone else to fill in, which was a bit harsh, I think. Just a couple of weeks after the European tour, we had a scheduled tour for South America, which I asked him beforehand, are you doing the South American tour? And he said, yes, I will. And he didn’t. He didn’t want to do it, either. And then I started feeling like this is not working out for me. There is a certain amount of trust that you need to have and feel within the band context. A band is like an extended family, and you spend a lot of time with them on tours and stuff like that. So for me, it’s important that you feel that you can trust what people say. And if they say they’re going to do something, and they don’t, that turns me off pretty much.
He seemed to be quite surprised about being fired from the band, anyhow. Do you have any understanding for that? Can you imagine that it was in some way surprising for him, or should he have seen it coming?
It’s hard for me to say. I haven’t really read his statements because I want to keep my mind focused on other things. To me, it wouldn’t have come as a surprise if it was me. He deliberately didn’t want to be part, he made sure that we understood that by just not being part. So for me, it’s a natural thing: If you’re not part, you can’t really say that you’re part. It’s simple as that. But of course it’s an unfortunate situation, and there is a certain amount of sadness thinking that this is ended. But also for me, it’s… the band is an ongoing thing. It doesn’t really stop rolling. There are always things to be done, and it has to be done. Otherwise, you will just fall into oblivion. And I still love doing this. My daily drive is to think about music, and write music, and plan for musical things to happen. For me, there’s no reason to stop it, because I love it so much. But for other people it might not be as important. And then it’s… I mean, it’s unfortunate, but it’s the reality.
It seemed as if he was primarily frustrated that the material from the early days of KATATONIA didn’t play any role in your live sets anymore. What’s the reason for that?
For me, the big reason has been that I have not been performing songs from the first two albums, mainly because I’m not really a growling vocalist anymore. I can’t really do it without sort of hurting my voice and I don’t want to do that in a live situation, when I have to sing clean afterward. But we’ve played recently songs from “Tonight’s Decision” [“For My Demons”, editor’s note], and we play “Teargas” pretty much every show. It’s also a matter of with every new album you release, you have a new set of maybe 10 or 12 songs that you also have to promote. And then you have to play what people want to hear from other albums. So it’s hell to come up with set lists these days, because we have so many songs.
But don’t you think that the fans would love to hear a full “Tonight’s Decision” set, for example, as a special anniversary tour or whatever?
Yeah, I mean, we’ve done it on several occasions: We played “Last Fair Deal Gone Down” in full when it turned ten years, and we played “Viva Emptiness” both when it was turning 10 and 20 years. With “Great Cold Distance”, we’ve done the same. So I mean, for “Tonight’s Decision”, I could easily do that or see us do that. It’s still a great album that I would want to revisit. There has to be a good opportunity to do it. If the album itself celebrates whatever, it could be now 30 years soon, I’d love to do something like that.
So you wouldn’t rule out something like that?
No, no, not for the sake of ruling it out.
That’s fascinating, Anders’ statement read as if this would have been one of his big problems with the band, that he felt no love for the back catalogue within the band, so to say. In his statement, he also said that he could imagine that there will be two bands named KATATONIA in the future, so he seems to not let go the name easily, maybe. Would that be something that would be okay for you? Or would this end in a name dispute in curt?
Oh, I don’t know. I haven’t really, I haven’t really thought about that. To me, it would be a little bit weird, but if there’s no other way out it could probably be the solution. But you know, time will tell, I guess…
Besides Anders, also Roger Öjersson is no longer part of the band. How did that come about?
We had some different opinions on things, and also he had his back problem, which prevented him from doing certain trips. So that’s the reason. But I have to say, Roger was an amazing musician, so I’m really happy to have had this number of years that we had with him, because it was very inspirational. He’s one of the best I’ve played with, definitely.
Instead, now you have Niklas Sandin and Sebastian Svalland in the band. How did that come about? Why were those two your first choice?
When it comes to Nico, he was the one that stepped in for Anders for the “Sky Void Of Stars” European Tour back in 2023, and he did a fantastic job. So for me, it was easy to ask him again to be part, which he very much wanted to. He’s an amazing player, he can play pretty much anything. He’s very versatile as a guitar player. Also, he’s got a lot of experience. He’s done this many years with Entombed, for instance, so that’s a really good match.
With Sebastian, it’s different, because I didn’t know him. But I knew he was a good guitar player, and I do know some friends of his, so I was asking a little bit around, like, is he a nice guy, is he easy to work with? And they said, yeah, he’s an amazing dude, which led me to contact him, and we had a meeting, and then we had a couple of rehearsals with him, and everyone was agreeing that he was a super nice guy, a very good player, fit straight into the band from the get-go.He’s been playing with us now for eight months, I think, and I was very happy that both of them got the chance to play on this album. Usually when you bring someone into the band, it’s when you have an album out, so it’s just going to be like a touring musician. But I think it’s important for them to feel that they have made an impression on the album with how they’re playing, their playing style is there, and with certain sounds. That’s a really good motivational thing, I think, for also when we go out to tour for this record. We all feel really proud of it – we made it as a team.
In how far did they influence the album? So had they some freedom to bring their own ideas into the studio, or did they more or less just play what you have written?
They did pretty much play what was written, but of course I gave them all the liberty in the world to … because I’m not a guitar player. I do play guitar, but I see it as a songwriting tool, basically. So of course I’m eager to call in the real expertise, and they’re far more superior guitar players than me, so my idea is always to have them enhance the whole guitar part of the album, which I think they did great. There’s some really cool guitar solos going on, and also guitar effects and stuff that they know much better than me, because they live for these things. (laughs) So I’m super happy that they could help me out with that. And of course, for the next album, I’m very open to hear their ideas, musically, that they could put into and see where that could take us. Because it’s always nice to have someone to bounce things with and get ideas from the other part and see where it takes us. So I’m very much up for that.
On the other hand, I just found out a few days ago that you’re no longer part of BLOODBATH anymore, which already happened in 2023, as I read. Why did you leave the band, and why wasn’t it published as a statement, or did I just don’t find it?
No, we haven’t made a statement. Probably there will be a statement soon, to get things straight. I just felt that I didn’t want to be part of it. I just didn’t think it was as fun as it used to be. So I wanted to focus on writing the new KATATONIA album.
And what about KORDA, the other band project you have started some time ago? The last update on Instagram is already two years old. Will there be some music with this band at some point, or is it more or less laid to rest?
No, I would love to do it! That’s also another case of not having the time really to focus on the KORDA stuff because of the KATATONIA touring schedule and writing of a new album. But now that it’s done, I could easily see myself looking into some of that stuff again. Funnily, though, I do KORDA with my friend Joakim Karlsson, who also plays in the band Craft. We co-wrote one song on the new KATATONIA album, the Swedish one, “Efter Solen”. So that’s a song that we started working on, I think 12 years ago, even before the KORDA stuff. But we have a mutual love for electronic music. So that’s probably the first song we started working on together, and it’s been unfinished for a long time. And he reminded me when I was writing music for the KATATONIA album that we should finish the song because he thought it had a lot of potential. I agreed, and I said, yeah, let’s do it. And then I realized maybe that’s a song that could actually end up on the KATATONIA album, because it has the right vibe for it, I think. And so it happened. We made it happen. We finished the song, the writing and the lyrics and everything, and just put it on there. And I think it stands out: It’s a really cool song that I’m super happy with.
Cool story, thank you very much for this insight! Thanks a lot for your time and answers, see you on tour!
Thank you very much, it’s been really nice talking to you! Cheers!
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23. Mai 2025 Moritz Grütz
Dieses Interview wurde per Telefon/Videocall geführt.
